Republican Candidate for Secretary of State Max Engling, is chatting with members of the Vanderburgh County Republican party at the Vanderburgh County fair. He’s one of four in the race. His Democatic opponent is Beau Bayh.
The Secretary of State’s responsibilities include overseeing state elections, chartering new businesses and licensing vehicle dealerships.
This story is focused on Engling and Bayh — a future story will cover candidates Greg Ballard and Lauri Shillings.
Engling is running to uphold conservative values in the state.
“So really what that means is ensuring that only citizens are voting in our elections. Of being more proactive in that approach,” he said. “It's also moving towards cleaning up our voter rolls.”
Engling is a Christian and married with four children. He has a variety of public and private sector experience including government work and small business.
“It's direct experience with elections, and it's direct experience with the legislative process that happens both at the state house and I've done it federally.”
Engling agrees with closed primaries where only party members pick their candidates — like in Kentucky.
Max Engling interview transcript
Ai generated with light editing
Tim Jagielo: Tell me about yourself
Max Engling: Yeah, so I'm a Christian. I've been married for almost 15 years, and we've got four kids. And I'm running to defend our elections and make sure that we uphold our conservative values here in the state of Indiana when it comes to this Secretary of State's race.
Jagielo: What would be, if you're elected, what are the first kind of policies that you'd work on?
Engling: So the most important thing is election integrity, and so really what that means is ensuring that only citizens are voting in our elections. Being more proactive in that approach, we've seen across the country that there are issues with that in several recent reports from the Department of Homeland Security Secretary, also in New Jersey and several other states. And I'm thankful to the work that has already happened here in the state of Indiana to push us in a strong direction.
But we need to build on that and be more proactive in our approach to election security. It's also transparency, so working on a transparency portal for folks that can report issues that they've seen at the county level up to the Secretary of State's office when it comes to elections. But then it's also business filing fraud. So we've seen companies that file an LLC in the Secretary of State's office and then employ folks that shouldn't have commercial driver's license, especially in the trucking industry. Maybe they don't have English proficiency to drive on our roads, and then it's hurting folks here in Indiana, sometimes killing Hoosiers. And so we're making sure that we close the gap in the Secretary of State's office, so that you compile that data, work with the Attorney General, and make sure you're investigating and prosecuting those folks.
Jagielo: What is the harm or the threat of people getting CDLs, for example, that are not llegal citizens?
Engling: So if you are here legally, then it's okay to get a CDL so long as you have English proficiency. So you can read the road signs, so you can see what's coming ahead of you, so you know how to follow the regulations, including how much weight you're pulling in your truck, etc. And so it's important to make sure when those businesses are registering in the Secretary of State's office that they are then following the regulations of their industry.
We saw recently up in Porter County there were a grandmother and granddaughter that were hit by a driver who had a CDL that didn't speak English that was not here legally, and because they were pulling too heavy of a load, when they hit the brakes, they went through the red light and smashed into this car, and both of them had to be airlifted, airlifted to a hospital close. And so, really, it's important to make sure that these folks understand the regulations, and then from the Secretary of State's office that you compile the data around these companies, because what happens is they will be fined, they'll dissolve that LLC, and then they'll refile a new identical LLC to evade that prosecution. And so, in the Secretary of State's office, you can work on that data and work with the Attorney General's office.
Jagielo: What might you do differently from the incumbent?
Engling: So it is being more proactive, especially when it comes to only people that are eligible to vote, voting. One way that you can do that is working with the state house to change the color of an ID for somebody that is here legally but not eligible to vote because they're not a citizen. And so you change the color maybe to purple or another color like that. So when they potentially try to vote in our elections, it's very obvious that that ID, when they walk into a polling place, you know, I was an inspector in the last primary. It would be very apparent that they're not eligible to vote if they do try, and so I think that's a way that you can be proactive to election integrity.
Jagielo: There's been a lot of discussion on election integrity lately. Can you comment on that discussion right now about calling into question election integrity in the states?
Engling: So when we look broadly at what's happening in the country, we saw a report from the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mullen, and he said when they looked at four states, they found 250,000 registered voters that were not eligible to vote, and so that is a documented real problem that's happening in the country, and that's why Republicans are pushing, and I'm supportive of the Save America Act to make sure that we do have good, strong election policy across the country.
Now, I will say, Indiana has done a good job on that front. Where, if we were to pass the Save America Act, which we would like, it affects Indiana less directly because we already have strong laws on voter ID and ensuring that only citizens are voting here, and so I am appreciative of that work that's already been done. But we do want to push for more proactive approaches when we're looking at election integrity, whether it's in Indiana or whether it's across the country.
Jagielo: One of the problems that has been raised about the Save America Act was that it would take longer than the midterms to implement it across the country, but you're saying Indiana it would be less of a lift to do that.
Engling: Yeah, partly because they've already taken those steps at the state house to put us in compliance, which I appreciate. And it's also one of those things where no matter how long it takes to implement, you have to start somewhere. So we want to pass that now at the federal level, even though that's not something that the Secretary of State can do directly, we're advocating for that because we want to make sure that we have strong elections all the way around the country.
Jagielo: There has been a lot of executive branch pressure on state, state elected officials and state professionals concerning elections. Is the secretary of state's office independent enough to have to be able to shut off pressure from the outside?
Engling: Well, I do think it is important at the federal level for them to be paying attention to what's happening and say if we if they see an issue to comment on that, but I do think you're very correct in that the Secretary of State is the chief elections officer for the state of Indiana, and so your job is to run elections in coordination with the clerks who implement that at the county level and actually administer that in a way that is bringing confidence to the voters and make sure that you're they understand that you're an impartial advocate in that division of the office to make sure the goal is just run good, strong elections and have good election policy.
Jagielo: One another question that I heard was interesting was: Are you in favor of or do you support open or closed primaries?
Engling: Yeah, so it is I think important for Republicans to pick their own candidates in the election, in the primary election, and Democrats to pick their own candidates in the primary election. And it's not a partisan thing. States that are on all sides of the ideological spectrum have decided whether they're going to go with an open or closed primary. And there's 15 states that have closed primaries, an additional 16 states that have semi-closed primaries. So it's just a matter of each party selecting the candidates that best fits their party, whether it's a Republican or a Democrat, and we've seen it happen across the country. In fact, more states have those closed or semi-closed primaries than don't, and it's not a partisan issue on either side. It's it's both sides of the ideological spectrum.
Jagielo: How do you feel about independent redistricting commissions?
Engling: So I think it's important to make sure that we have a redistricting that matches what's happening both in the state and around the country, and so that there's not an imbalance across the country as well, either in Indiana or across the country. And so it's important to take the next right step in that, whether that includes something of an independent commission, which oftentimes doesn't end up being truly an independent commission, or whether it's on the party process, you have to have a thoughtful discussion as that as you as you move forward. And obviously, that's a discussion that has to happen at the state house. And we saw some of that happen recently, and I expect that'll probably happen again at the state house.
Jagielo: One of the first things you said was that you wanted to. You talk about conservative values. What role does the Secretary of State play in conservative values inside the state?
Engling: So there's kind of two parts. When you're running for Secretary of State, you are running in a constitutionally elected office across the state, of which you need to, if the voters send you forward into that role, you link arms with your other statewide partners and say, "How are we going to move the state forward in the direction that the voters have sent you to move it forward? In my case, in the conservative direction. But there's also four divisions inside of the Secretary of State's office, and the expectation is that in each of those divisions, you will be leading in a way, and the division leaders will be leading in a way where they just execute on the mission, right? And so, in the election division, it's a bipartisan group of people that, or rather, partisan but equal numbers of partisan, and so their job is to just execute on the mission of secure elections, and so, and that's true across the other three divisions as well. So while there is an element at the top that says we're going to run this in a conservative fashion across the statewide office, there's also certainly a part of it that says we're going to execute on each of the four divisions in an administrative and nonpartisan fashion.
Jagielo: But what does ‘conservative’ mean, though?
Engling: So that means that we are ensuring that you know only citizens are voting in our elections. It's the transparency part of having that portal that I mentioned. It's also moving towards cleaning up our voter rolls. And part of the reason, you know, when I say those are ‘conservative values,’ it's because when you look across the country, the states that are run by Democrats are not operating in that way. That's where we've seen the biggest challenges around folks that are not here legally, or not, or here legally but not citizens voting in our elections, and where we've seen things like mail-in ballots being mailed to everybody in a blanket fashion, or ballot harvesting, or a number of you know weeks of counting votes after the election that I would say we don't want to see here in Indiana. We want strong, clean, tight elections, and not weeks of counting them. And so I'd say on the conservative side, those should be strong values for everyone. But when you look across the country, those are conservative values that we want to push for here in Indiana.
Jagielo: Would you like to talk about you applicable prior experience?
Engling: So it's direct experience with small businesses. It's direct experience with elections, and it's direct experience with the legislative process that happens both at the state house and I've done it federally to make sure that you can take priorities, champion them, build the coalition around it, and get it across the finish line. And I will say too that an important part of getting policy into inaction is that you are working with the folks that will implement it at the county level. And I've committed to working directly with clerks, including great clerks here in a great clerk here in Vanderburgh County to make sure that if you do pass this legislation, which we're expecting to, then you work with the folks implementing it because you can have great policy, but if you can't actually put it into practice at the county at the election level, then it doesn't matter if you can get it across the finish line in the state house.
His Democratic opponent is Beau Bayh, son of former Indiana Governor Evan Bayh.
Bayh’s first move would be an audit of the department. He mentioned the alleged wasteful spending and ethics violations of the current Republican Secretary of State Diego Morales.
“Make sure that your hard-earned tax dollars are going toward good things like supporting our police and firefighters, better roads and bridges, better public schools. That's my first priority: is cleaning up the office.”
He said elections are safe and secure in Indiana, and that state officialls shouldn’t fall to pressure from the federal government.
“I will follow the law and I will do the right thing. I will also work with anyone of any political party to do what's best for the state of Indiana.”
He pledged to be a “non-partisan” Secretary of State. Bayh is an attorney practicing in Indianapolis and a United States Marine Corps infantry officer.
Also on the ballot is Libertarian Lauri Shillings and Independent Greg Ballard who will be featured in a separate story.
Beau Bayh interview transcript
AI generated with light editing
Timothy Jagielo: Tell me a little bit about yourself first.
Bayh: So, I'm the seventh generation of our family born here in the state of Indiana. I'm a United States Marine Corps infantry officer. I was a captain when I got out, and I'm currently practicing law in Indianapolis.
Jagielo: So why are you running?
Bayh: I was raised in a family of public servants, and I was always raised to believe that if you're going to enter public life, no one forces you to do that. But if you enter public life, you ought to do that to help your community, your state, and your country, and not to help yourself. And unfortunately, in the Secretary of State's office, we've seen someone, you know, seek public office not to benefit our state, but to enrich himself.
He spent our tax dollars on luxury SUVs, on hiring his family members, on taking trips all over the world, and no big contracts to his largest donors. And that kind of nonsense offends my sense of what a public servant should be. So I'm running to clean up this office and restore some integrity to it.
Jagielo: If elected, what would your top or first policy priorities be?
Bayh: The first thing that I will do as Secretary of State of Indiana is to conduct an independent audit of this office. I just mentioned some of the wasteful spending that's gone on and some of the insider dealing. No bid contracts to largest donors, wasting money on luxury SUVs. Government corruption often operates a lot like an iceberg. We only see the 10-percent above the surface, the 90-percent lurking beneath the surface. We need to uncover. So open up the books, independent audit. Make sure that your hard-earned tax dollars are going toward good things like supporting our police and firefighters, better roads and bridges, better public schools. That's my first priority is cleaning up the office.
Jagielo: What does the Secretary of State have to do with hose areas, though?
Bayh: Well, I think every public official in our state has a duty to be a good steward of the taxpayer resources. You're right. The discrete policy areas that this office covers may not necessarily have to do with you know conducting independent audit, but I want to be a good steward of the taxpayer resources. We need honest government in our state. But there are some very important policy objectives beyond cleaning up the office. But it's important to recognize that no one will trust us to do anything with respect to voting or business registrations or security fraud investigations if the if the taxpayer and if the voter fundamentally does not trust that the office is being run in the proper way, so it's important to level set by cleaning up some of the corruption we've seen.
Jagielo: What would you do differently from the incumbent? Do you feel like you've answered that, or do you want to add to that?
Bayh: I'm gonna drive my own vehicle. It's right over there. I'm gonna drive my own car. I'm not gonna ask the taxpayers to fund a $92,000 luxury truck for myself. I'm not gonna hire my family members. My brother's got a good job. I'm not going to take trips unexplained all over the world or give out no big contracts to my largest donors. I've made a pledge in this campaign that if you donate to our campaign, you will not be awarded a state contract. There's no room for that, regardless of what side of the political spectrum you come from. There's no room for that type of insider dealing in our state government. This office, I will run in a nonpartisan way. There's no room for injecting partisanship into our electoral process. Those are just a few things that I do differently.
Jagielo: Election integrity has been a topic again from the top down in the past few weeks. Big primetime address from the president of the United States. How do you feel about that discussion of election integrity?
Bayh: We have secure elections here in the state of Indiana, and don't just take my word for it. The attorney general and the secretary of state conducted an investigation into illegal voting in Indiana. And look, I just want to be very clear: one illegal vote is one too many. … If I'm Secretary of State there will be a zero tolerance policy for illegal voting but it's also important to keep in perspective that out of 10s of millions of votes cast the Secretary of State and the Attorney General uncovered 22 instances of illegal voting and so we need to do everything we can to crack down on it where it exists I think our voter ID law does a good job of protecting. Our elections, but we also have a duty to expand participation among eligible voters. That's going to be one of the big focuses that I have when we get into office, because I think our democracy is at its best when there are more people who are eligible that are participating.
Jagielo: how would you handle up pressure from, like, say, the federal government on your office regarding voting, regarding how things are being run in general?
Bayh: I will follow the law and I will do the right thing. I will also work with anyone of any political party to do what's best for the state of Indiana. But I will follow the law, and like I said from the outset of this campaign, I will not run this office in a partisan way. So, if there's anyone of any political party that's attempting to get me to be a partisan actor in this office, that's not going to happen.
Jagielo: How do you feel about the main priorities of the Save Act, the Save America Act? Because in talking to Max, Engling. Basically, he said it wouldn't be that hard to implement that in Indiana because a lot of those things are already in place.
Bayh: We have a voter ID law in our state. One of the things that law seeks to do at the federal level, we already have here, so it's not very relevant. One thing I'm very concerned about with respect to the Save Act, for a new voter to register to vote, you have to provide a birth certificate or a passport. And think for a lot of women who have changed their last names after getting married, that's going to make it very hard for them to participate. So the law, as it's currently written, I think would carve out a lot of people who I think need to participate in our democratic process. And a lot of what it's trying to do, we already have here in Indiana.
Jagielo: Are you in favor, or how do you feel about open or closed primaries?
Bayh: I want to keep our primaries open, and I'll tell you why. The taxpayers in our state, you, me, everyone else here in Evansville, pays taxes that fund our primary system. I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense, given the fact that the taxpayers funding it to let the private clubs close it off to their private membership, here in Indiana, the biggest block of voters is not Democrats or Republicans; it's Independents, and so we already have one of the lowest participation rates in the country here. Can you imagine what would happen if we said in order to vote in a primary you have to register with a political party that you don't necessarily agree with, I think we need more people who are eligible participating. Closing our primaries is not is only not only not fair because the taxpayers funding it. It's also going to drive our participation even lower.
Jagielo: How do you feel about independent redistricting commissions when it comes to time to redistrict a state?
Bayh: I'm all in favor. I wish Congress would pass a law, which they could do tomorrow, outlawing gerrymandering on a partisan basis altogether. I think it's it's just it doesn't make common sense to have elected officials choosing their voters. I think the voters should choose their elected officials. I think I think it should be the other way around and take partisanship completely out of that process and make sure that our districts are representing the communities that they're intended to.
Jagielo: Anything else you want to add that I may not have asked?
Bayh: We talked a little bit about the important policy of this office and about cleaning up some of the wasteful spending we've seen go on. But this campaign is about something deeper than those things. Even I served as captain in the United States Marine Corps, and in the units that I was in command of. One of the best things about our nation's militaries it draws from every walk of life, from all over the country. We didn't always agree on everything. Just like everyone here in Evansville, you might not agree with your family on everything, but at the end of the day, we came together despite those disagreements to achieve some really hard missions. So beyond the policy of this office, this movement, which I hope you will join, is about building a better type of politics in our state, where we don't feed into the division, the fear, and the anger that we've seen too often at the federal and the state level. Instead, we try and bridge party divides, bridge ideological divides, and come together, achieve common sense solutions for working people. That's what this campaign is about.
Jagielo: There are four choices in a candidate for this race. Why should someone vote for you?
Bayh: Well, I'm the only one in this race that's serious about cleaning up this office. I've committed from day one, to conduct an independent audit of this office, when Max Engling was posed that same question just several days ago, he hemmed and hawed and didn't answer yes or no. There's a reason for that because he has propped up Diego Morales, who's wasted our tax money, who's hired his family members, and given out you know sweetheart deals to his donors for the past three years. He Max Engling even said that he may be in favor of a criminal prosecution of this guy, but then when he was asked if he'd vote for him if he was successful at the convention, he said yes. That's concerning because for him it's not about good government; it's about propping up your team because this guy's wearing the right color jersey. I don't pursue policies because they benefit my political party. I pursue them because they're the right thing for the people of our state. The hardworking men and women of our state. That's why people should vote for me because I'm serious about cleaning up an office that desperately needs it.