STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Just under four years ago, a new president spoke of a new approach to foreign policy.
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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: American leadership must meet this new moment of advancing authoritarianism, including the growing ambitions of China to rival the United States and the determination of Russia to damage and disrupt our democracy.
INSKEEP: President Biden emphasized stronger alliances and more adult leadership. Four years have passed, and whether the decisions were right or wrong on the merits, foreign policy was a political weight for Biden from the collapse in Afghanistan to the Gaza War to the war in Ukraine that most Americans support but some Republicans now oppose. Biden's diplomatic team included Jeff Flake, a former Republican senator, who, for a time, was the U.S. ambassador to Turkey, and he's on the line from Utah. Ambassador, welcome back.
JEFF FLAKE: Hey, it's great to be with you.
INSKEEP: Did you feel that as ambassador, you were advancing a coherent approach to the world by the Biden administration?
FLAKE: I did. I think that there has been, long been a bipartisan consensus on foreign policy. There's an old adage that politics stops at the water's edge. That's not completely true, but it's more true than not, and I did feel that way.
INSKEEP: And that's an interesting thing that you say about that there has been a bipartisan consensus. Does it still feel that way to you as we have an incoming president who at least talks so very differently about other countries in the world, including U.S. allies?
FLAKE: Well, obviously, the new president will have his own agenda, his own feelings about foreign policy. But if you look at the Congress, and particularly the Senate, then there still is that bipartisan consensus. And I think that the president's pick for secretary of state, Marco Rubio, Mike Waltz, these are people who, I think, kind of share that bipartisan consensus and will move forward with it.
INSKEEP: Michael Waltz, the national security adviser. You're saying that you see people there who would obviously not agree with Biden on some big issues, but they have the basic idea of American security that is grounded in alliances around the world. Is that right?
FLAKE: You bet. They value, in particular, our NATO alliance. That's been the most successful military alliance in history. Obviously, in the Indo-Pacific, we need alliances. We have them with The Quad, with AUKUS. So I think that we're in a good position.
INSKEEP: I mentioned that you spent some time as ambassador to Turkey. We've just in recent weeks, and you have - we've watched, and you've watched a collapse next door in Syria. A rebel group came to power, deposed the old government. President-elect Trump says Turkey is behind this, that they've wanted Syria for a long time, and that the rebels are, quote, "controlled by Turkey." Do you believe that the rebels are, in fact, controlled by Turkey?
FLAKE: Well, Turkey does have tremendous influence with the rebel group. It is true that we're in a much better position. The Syrian people are in a much better position with Assad gone. Obviously, we'll want to work with our ally, Turkey, to ensure that the people of Syria can exercise freedom of religion and freedom of, well, all the freedoms that they deserve that they've been denied for so long. And I'm convinced we're in a much better place than we were before. Iran is significantly weakened, and that will be to everyone's benefit there in the region.
INSKEEP: Oh, well, that raises a very interesting point, as well. Israel, whatever you think of their various actions, has devastated one Iranian proxy or ally after another. And finally, at the end, the Syrian government, another Iranian ally, collapsed. Is there some opportunity in this moment in the way the United States approaches or confronts Iran? And if so, how would you frame that opportunity?
FLAKE: Well, there is tremendous opportunity. Obviously, I think the president will - the new president will move back to what he called maximum pressure on Iran, and I think that that's a good thing. If we can deny them the ability to wage war - proxy wars in the region, that'll be a good thing and good for all of our allies in the region.
INSKEEP: And do you think that can be done without an excessive risk of war with Iran?
FLAKE: Well, that potential always exists, but I think it's much less likely now, given Iran's weakened position, and it is significantly weakened.
INSKEEP: Ambassador Flake, Senator Flake, thanks so much. Really appreciate it.
FLAKE: Hey, thanks for having me on.
INSKEEP: Jeff Flake is a former Republican senator from Arizona who was later the top U.S. envoy to Turkey.
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