ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
We begin today with a historic prisoner swap with Russia. Former Marine Paul Whelan, two American journalists and a high-profile Russian who holds a U.S. green card were among those released from prison. President Biden stood alongside their families, calling this a great day.
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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: And now their brutal ordeal is over, and they're free.
SHAPIRO: In all, 16 people were swapped, with eight Russian criminals held not only in the U.S. but also in Germany, Slovenia, Poland and Norway. White House officials say it took a lot of painstaking diplomacy to get to this point. So we are joined now by NPR's diplomatic correspondent Michele Kelemen. Hi, Michele.
MICHELE KELEMEN, BYLINE: Hi there.
SHAPIRO: And our Moscow correspondent Charles Maynes is on the line, too. Hi, Charles.
CHARLES MAYNES, BYLINE: Hi there.
SHAPIRO: Michele, to start with you, tell us about the Americans who are coming home.
KELEMEN: Yeah. You mentioned Paul Whelan. He's been held the longest. He went to Russia for a wedding and was arrested at the end of 2018, accused of espionage. He was passed over in previous prisoner swaps. Then there's Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich, who was arrested last year. He was rushed through a closed-door trial a couple of weeks ago.
And the same day that he was convicted in what the U.S. called a sham trial, the Russians convicted Alsu Kurmasheva in a secret trial. She's an editor with the U.S.-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, and she was in Russia visiting family. Finally, there's Vladimir Kara-Murza. He's a Russian opposition figure and Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist. He's a green card holder. And his family was at the White House today, though he's not coming directly to the U.S., as the others are. He's going first to Germany. That's where some of the other former political prisoners are going.
SHAPIRO: Charles, how big a deal are these Russian political prisoners?
MAYNES: Well, they're mostly from opposition and human rights circles, some quite well-known. Michele mentioned Kara-Murza, but there's also Oleg Orlov. He's a veteran human rights campaigner whose organization, Memorial, was a recent Nobel Peace Prize recipient. Meanwhile, several others were associates of the deceased opposition leader Alexei Navalny, two of them young women who were sentenced on extremism charges, widely seen as politically motivated, and the same for several opposition politicians, artists, activists, all jailed over their criticism of the war in Ukraine. And I should mention there were also five German nationals in the mix, perhaps no surprise given Berlin's role in this deal.
SHAPIRO: Tell us about what Russia got in return. What was Putin's big ask here?
MAYNES: Well, you know, Russian President Vladimir Putin was asked about Gershkovich's case in several settings publicly, and he made it abundantly clear he wanted one Russian in particular if there was to be any deal. And that was Vadim Krasikov, a suspected Russian state assassin who was serving a life sentence in Germany on murder charges. And while other Russians are also returning home, including alleged spies and people accused of financial crimes and evading Western sanctions, you know, Krasikov has always seemed to be the key figure. But to get him home for an American, like Gershkovich or Paul Whelan or both, the U.S. obviously needed Germany on board.
SHAPIRO: Michele, when President Biden announced this deal, he called it a feat of diplomacy and said it was only possible because the U.S. has friends.
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BIDEN: So for anyone who questions whether allies matter, they do. They matter. Today is a powerful example of why it's vital to have friends in this world.
SHAPIRO: What did he mean by that?
KELEMEN: Well, of course, it was a dig at former President Donald Trump, who has questioned U.S. alliances and who has also said that only he could get Gershkovich out if he's reelected in November. In this case, it was U.S. ally Germany that played a key role. We also saw Slovenia rush through a case against two Russian spies to be able to trade them in time. Poland and Norway released Russian spies. And Turkey was kind of the logistics hub. The swap happened at the airport in Ankara. So there were a lot of players here.
The White House says that Germany's chancellor told Biden earlier this year that for Biden, he would do this. The White House also says that right before Biden announced that he was not going to run for reelection, he called his Slovenian counterpart to finalize this deal. So that was kind of an interesting twist in the TikTok.
SHAPIRO: There have been so many twists and turns in this long process, such complicated negotiations. What more can you tell us about the diplomatic steps that led up to today's agreement?
KELEMEN: Yeah. So it really started with the talks on getting basketball star Brittney Griner out of Russia. You might remember that she was traded for the so-called merchant of death, Viktor Bout. And while the U.S. wanted to get Paul Whelan out, at the time, the Russians were insisting on a one-for-one trade, and they wanted Krasikov out. Again, he was in German custody, not U.S. custody.
So after Evan Gershkovich was arrested, Secretary of State Antony Blinken started talking with the Germans about what it would take to get them interested in the swap. One idea that was floated was to get Alexei Navalny out. But when he died in an Arctic penal colony earlier this year, Blinken and the Biden administration started scrambling to expand this deal. And the results are that you have some Russian political prisoners getting out, as Charles mentioned, along with some German nationals and the Americans.
MAYNES: You know, if I can chime in here, I think it's important to note that some feel as though the White House deal for Griner in particular encouraged Russia to detain more Americans, including, perhaps, Gershkovich, because it paid dividends for Moscow. You know, here you have a basketball star traded for an arms dealer. It looks a little uneven in the other direction. We know Putin wanted Krasikov, the assassin, back, but the rest of these Russians aren't particularly well-known inside Russia. And meanwhile, the Russians who are political prisoners are being released. They're cause celebres to opponents of the Kremlin.
So even some government loyalists are asking, why did Putin make this seemingly uneven trade in numbers and, arguably, importance? And this deal, they note, makes the Biden-Harris administration look pretty good at a key moment in an election year. And maybe that explains why Putin tonight was out personally on the tarmac with flowers to greet these Russians as they arrived in Moscow. He's clearly trying to give them a hero's welcome.
SHAPIRO: And so, you know, President Biden said this is a good day. Michele, is there larger significance? Does this indicate a broader shift?
KELEMEN: Not much of a change in U.S.-Russian relations, the White House is saying. And the Russians do still hold some other Americans, and there are still lots of political prisoners still in Russia.
SHAPIRO: That is NPR's Michele Kelemen at the State Department and our Moscow correspondent Charles Maynes. Thank you both.
KELEMEN: Thank you.
MAYNES: Thank you.
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